Exes, Liars and Fat-Shaming

Sabrina Sajan 00:00

Ever wonder what motivates people to get plastic surgery?

Dr. Javad Sajan 00:03

Did they regret it?

Sabrina Sajan 00:03

What can we learn from the weird and wild stuff that happens at our plastic surgery clinic? We're going to tell some stories, get some laughs and learned on.

Dr. Javad Sajan 00:12

Clinic talk with Sabrina Sajan.

Sabrina Sajan 00:14

On the plastic surgeon podcast.

Dr. Javad Sajan 00:34

Hello, my friends. I'm Dr. Javad Sajan and of course I'm here with my lovely wife and CEO of Allure Esthetic Sabrina Sajan.

Sabrina Sajan 00:40

Welcome back. And thanks for listening. Please rate us and review us on Apple podcast. On clinic talk we tell real stories of fun, strange, hopeful, and educational things that happen at our clinic from day to day.

Dr. Javad Sajan 00:54

Yup. We got a lot of weird and hilarious things happening at the club.

Sabrina Sajan 00:57

You can find the clinic at allureesthetic.com. So what clinic stories are we talking about today?

Dr. Javad Sajan 01:04

We had such a wild and amazing week. This episode, we're going to talk about provider patients, me paying rent for employees, and then running away, employees leaving on bad terms and patients with medical conditions such as morbid obesity.

Sabrina Sajan 01:22

So let's start with the first one.

Dr. Javad Sajan 01:24

So as you all know, we get so many amazing patients from all walks of life, all careers and all paths. Our downtown office actually is located across Swedish Hospital. So we get a lot of providers from there and we got a lot of patients who are providers, right? Sabrina.

Sabrina Sajan 01:39

Yeah, many.

Dr. Javad Sajan 01:40

Many and you know, from, I would say from high-end very well-known people who do surgery, oncologists, family medicine doctors, even residents. And I can tell you all that the provider patients, although they're insiders, there are some of the most unique and sometimes challenging people to work with. This one story pops up that I have to share with our fans and listeners. We had an amazing patient who got filler, very sweet person. This person is a provider. The filler went amazing. The person loved it. They got it a week before a trip that they had going on, right Sabrina?

Sabrina Sajan 02:23

Hmm.

Dr. Javad Sajan 02:23

So the patient got their filler, they're home, they're excited. Two days before the trip, the patient calls the clinic saying my face is crooked.

Sabrina Sajan 02:32

Yes, she is not very nice over the phone and is really upset. And she's you know saying all these things, and she's literally said, I'm coming there right now.

Dr. Javad Sajan 02:48

I remember that. And I was in surgery that day and we made an opening for her to come at the end of my day, after my surgeries. In that, you know, I thought he was some kind of emergency cause this person's very nice, smart, capable person. So they come in and we are put filler in her face and I examined her, I looked at her and everything looked perfect. It was very little filler. We only had put 0.25 CC'S of hyaluronic acid based filler or something like a restyling product in one of her folds in face. And it looked perfect. And then she comes and she tells me, "Doc, I don't like this filler". I'm like, "Okay. I understand. Tell me what you don't like, show me what the mirror". And she can point to it. She like, "I don't like my face".

Dr. Javad Sajan 03:31

I'm like, "Okay, I can under, I respect that. I think your face is very nice looking. And some days I don't like my face also, but that doesn't mean I call and get upset and start yelling the person who did the treatment. So tell me exactly what you're not liking". And she says, again, "I don't like my face, fix it". So then, you know, I continue my examination. I do a thorough examination. I fill the filler, everything feels in perfect location, everything looks great. I sit down and I get the feeling there's something more, I'm missing somethings aren't adding up. I asked her. "So Nice patient kindly share with me what you don't like about your face". And again, we're having the circular argument just saying, "I don't like my face". I'm like, "Your face looks great. I don't like my face, face looks great, back and forth, back and forth.

Dr. Javad Sajan 04:13

I'm like, "Okay. So I mean, what can I do to make things better"? Right? And this is a provider so she knows how vigilant we are with our patients. We care, obviously we got her in the same day of her concern. So she tells me, "I want you to do three things". I'm like, "Oh great", inside I'm feeling good. I'm like, "Yes, I'm kind of planned some vision". She's willing to do something. Right. It's very late at night. It's 9:30 PM. Happy to see her. Right now, I want to help her to get take care of. And she's like "The three things are number one, you must give me a full refund for the whole filler. Even though I allegedly don't know what I don't like. Number two, dissolve the filler and number three redo it".

Dr. Javad Sajan 04:55

So I sat down in my chair, took a nice gentle breath and asked her, "Hey, nice patient, thank you for that feedback. I appreciate that. Are you a provider"? And she told me "Yes". And I said, "Okay, you see patients. Right"? And she said, "Yes". I was like, "Okay, excellent. So if you had a patient come to you". No, then I asked her, "did I make any kind of guarantee for you when we did the treatment"? And she said, "No". Then I asked her. "Okay. So you don't know what you don't like, that you want, all these things. Let's flip the script a little bit. If you had a patient who you did some kind of treatment for let's see how you would respond". So I asked her, "Do you make any guarantees to your patients"? She said, "No". Then I asked her, "If you had a patient asking you for a refund for something you didn't guarantee and they couldn't identify, what would you do"? And she told me, "I wouldn't give them a refund". So then I looked at her paused for about three seconds. It became awkward, but I wanted that. I wanted all of us to feel that moment, understand it, relish it, taste it. And then I said, "Okay". And I don't usually do this, but this person was just going on and on. So I asked-

Sabrina Sajan 06:13

She's definitely aggressive.

Dr. Javad Sajan 06:15

Yeah. Very aggressive. So then I said, "Okay, so you wouldn't do this. Can you please help me understand why you're asking these things from us"? And you know what she told me, she said, "Oh, you guys make too much money. You can afford it". And I gently said, "What does that have to do with any of this"? You know? And she had no answer and obviously the nine an hour helping manage this nice person and getting them taken care of.

Sabrina Sajan 06:42

And little, do you know, this patient only accepts cash,

Dr. Javad Sajan 06:48

So, you know, it's a very challenging situation so that, you know, the question is how do you handle someone like this? Right. And, our number one goal at our practice Sabrina and, you know, you've really helped embody this so much as our number one goal is to serve more, do more and be more. Right?

Sabrina Sajan 07:07

Definitely.

Dr. Javad Sajan 07:08

And so when we have a situation like this, you know, I hand it off to the administration to handle because medically speaking. There's nothing I can do. What do you guys do after this? When I pass it off.

Sabrina Sajan 07:19

So, you know, we talked to the patient and we kind of get their feedback on how everything went. We always listened to them first. You know, we kind of let them get out. A lot of times, it's just other things that are in their life. That's causing them to behave this way. And we totally understand that. So we let them speak, we let them take it out on us. And then we asked them, what do you think we could do for you to make this experience better? And so the variety of things that the patients tell us, and a lot of times they just want, one-on-one face time with an provider and MD and, you know, they come in and or they just need some time to settle and think about the treatment and the service that they received and then kind of self-reflect. And I think that time helps.

Dr. Javad Sajan 08:04

Yeah. And I think sometimes when I see provider patients, I maybe hold them too high of a standard because I think you're a provider, you know how all of this works? And we're trying to do the best for you. And I think sometimes I, myself get a little bit, not as patient as I am with regular patients or excuse the pun because when you have a provider and someone who helps take people take care of many, you know, other issues, you would expect that they have a better level of comprehension, a better level of understanding what we're doing and why we're doing it. But that is the opposite. When we have a provider patient they're actually more aggressive, usually more demanding. And typically they will be least likely to be happy with any treatment that we do.

Sabrina Sajan 08:50

It's unfortunate.

Dr. Javad Sajan 08:51

And we love them all. This patient, she's an amazing patient. We care for very much, you know, it's situation is already resolved as I'm talking about it, it was handled very well. We took great care of her and she's doing fantastic. But I wanted to share with you all that, when we're taking care of amazing people, our number one goal is to do the best we can. No one's putting filler in anyone's face and to make them crooked, right? No, one's trying to do that. We're trying to help them have them get the best look, best feel, and make them feel good about themselves. And when you look at filler on the grand scheme of what we do, it's like the most teeny tiny little EDBD thing we do, right? We cut people's bodies in half and put them back together and that's legit stuff. And this filler is legit too.

Dr. Javad Sajan 09:27

But on the grand scheme of things, it's got to relax, take a deep breath. It's going to be okay. And that was an interesting experience. I've never had that level of interaction with this nice person. I had to just have them feel what they were trying to do, because it was, I felt it was so wrong. Whether or not our practices doing great or not great, is under your business. It is our job to take care of you. And we're going to take care of you and do great things for you to do our best, to make you happy. Same time, you have to have a reasonable understanding. And just because you're an insider, you can't use that to your advantage to manipulate us and manipulate the situation. You know what I'm saying?

Sabrina Sajan 10:06

Yeah. And then this story also brings me to another you know, a story about another provider patient that we had, you know, our estheticians do an amazing job and, you know, they provide great care for our patients. So we had someone that was doing a treatment on a provider patient again. And after the treatment, I see one of our employees crying, she runs out of that room and she's crying.

Dr. Javad Sajan 10:35

And this is the employee who is currently pregnant?

Sabrina Sajan 10:38

Yes so she is coming out, she's crying and I'm like, "What happened? Are you okay"?

Dr. Javad Sajan 10:43

She's super nice. I mean, this person is the provider. Sabrina is talking about is probably one of the calmest, soothing, sweetest, most gentle human beings to work with us who literally is holding another child right now.

Sabrina Sajan 10:58

Yes. So she comes out crying and, you know, I'm like, "Are you okay"? She's like, "Yeah, I'm fine. It was just, I had a really rough interaction with one of these patients and, you know, I don't know how it went. They were really upset at me. They told me that I don't do good services and I am not thorough enough". And she went on and on about how this person made her feel bad and you know, this provider of ours, she's always had great reviews. The patients love her. They love coming to her, this was very unusual for me to hear that from her, that a patient didn't like her. So I told, don't worry about it. It'll be fine. You know, I gave her some water, settle her down and then I said, don't worry about, I'll take care of it. So apparently, you know, that patient end up leaving and told her to stop the service right now. And you're not good at your job. And then she walked out basically.

Dr. Javad Sajan 11:57

And this patient who was upset, she's a high level on the, he or she, I don't know what they are. I don't know the details of this person, but this person is like a high level provider. Right? So their postgraduate education, you know, they take care of many people, right?

Sabrina Sajan 12:12

Yeah. They take care of many other patients as well.

Dr. Javad Sajan 12:16

Don't some of our office staff go to this person.

Sabrina Sajan 12:20

Yes. So a few of our office staff go to this person for other services that this patient provides. So, you know, I searched for it, I'll take care of it. Don't worry. And then the following day was late that night. So the following day I give this provider a call, which is the patient the patient provider. I give her a call and I asked her "How everything went and, you know, I heard that you didn't have a great experience and I would love to make things better. And I want to hear what happened" and she's going off on one of our, the employee that provided the treatment. And she said "She was not thorough, her hair was open I didn't feel comfortable she doesn't know her job. I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but she doesn't know what she's doing". And I said to her, "Okay. I said, could you explain to me what she didn't do"? And, you know, she went on and on and it was just generic stuff. And she was just upset, you know? And I offered her, I said, "Would you like to see another provider and or I said, I'm happy to give you a refund. Because you did not have a good experience. And you're more than welcome to find another practice. If our practice is not a good fit for you".

Dr. Javad Sajan 13:40

Did she take the refund?

Sabrina Sajan 13:41

So then she stopped like, "No, no, no, no, no, I don't want to refund". She's like, "I'm a provider myself. I'm so-and-so". And I said, "Oh, okay". And I said, you know, "I understand some people are not good fit for each other. And if we're not a good fit for you, you know, I'm happy to give you a refund and you can find another practice for yourself". And she stopped me and she said, "No, I don't want to leave your practice. Dr. Sajan is so nice. You guys are so nice". And let me tell you, she's never met Dr. Sajan before, but I said, "Okay, sure. I mean, I was like I'm happy to keep you at our practice and I just want you to be happy and you to have a good experience. And so then I offered her for, you know, to get her another treatment that I completely comped. And I said, she can come and see another provider. And, you know, maybe that experience will go better. So then I scheduled her for another treatment with another provider of ours. And then after that the day I let the other provided on this individual is a provider please be gentle. She had a bad experience last time. And you know, take good care of her. Then that day comes. And-

Dr. Javad Sajan 14:54

Did she give a hard time to this new provider?

Sabrina Sajan 14:57

She doesn't show up.

Dr. Javad Sajan 14:59

What? So after all of this, this whole phone call, this whole complaint, making somebody pregnant and cry, she doesn't show up to the free treatment that you set up for her.

Sabrina Sajan 15:10

Yeas.

Dr. Javad Sajan 15:10

Did she call and give her a heads up?

Sabrina Sajan 15:12

No, nothing. I had to cancel the other provider's lunchtime and to switch it to another time to accommodate the time that worked best for her, because she wanted to come at lunchtime. I'm guessing, cause she's a provider. And she had that time, you know, off during the day. So she wanted to come out of her lunchtime. So I had to move our employees lunch to another time so we could accommodate her, which is perfectly fine. So we are happy to do so. She doesn't come, the provider's waiting five minutes go by, 10 minutes go by, 15 minutes go by. We call her, no answer.

Dr. Javad Sajan 15:43

You guys texted her or all that.

Sabrina Sajan 15:44

We texted her, no answer. We emailed her, no answer. And then we never hear from her.

Dr. Javad Sajan 15:51

That's weird. I don't get it. You know, we love our patients, we love all of you. Thank you for being a part of our practice. You know, we just highlight some of these unique stories just because they're sort of funny. And-

Sabrina Sajan 16:02

And then one of our employees goes to her office and-

Dr. Javad Sajan 16:08

Yeah, yeah. We'll leave it there. Yeah. That's going to be too much so, all we can say is we love all of our patients. You guys are amazing. Thank you for being part of us. And sometimes if you give a special stories, we're going to generically share them. All right. So the next one. Oh my goodness. All right guys. So, you know, one of the toughest roles in our company used to be insurance coordinator and literally every month we had a new co-insurance coordinator. I had one person quit after three hours. That was a funny story.

Sabrina Sajan 16:41

One person went to the bathroom and never came back.

Dr. Javad Sajan 16:43

Yes, insurance people are nice. We love them all. They're amazing people. It has been a tough role to fit. So I had insurance coordinator who started with us, nice lady, you know, she seemed very kind and all that kind of stuff. So we hired her right Sabrina?

Sabrina Sajan 17:00

Hmm

Dr. Javad Sajan 17:00

And she's working. And then two weeks after starting her job, she starts calling out a lot and we're like, what's going on? And then she sends us a long email. "Oh My daughter is in the hospital, a car accident". So we're like, "Oh, we feel bad. Okay, no problem. Take your time. We'll figure things out here. You take care of your kid". And her daughter's like, you know, in her twenties or something like that. So then this employee comes to work again and, you know, looks really sad and depressed. And I really care about our staff, right? We know our staff are really kind sweet, loving people who we have the privilege of working with. And I really believe that when people work with us, they give us one of their most valuable resources, which is their time.

Dr. Javad Sajan 17:47

When people are at our company and, Sabrina and I really try to embody this, we really want to make sure they get the most out of it. And how do we do that? Everybody works with us has special projects for growth so they can keep learning and developing. We do our best to accommodate people's schedules. And we do our best to give people a good life. Why? Because we know if people have a good life, then we will have a good life and everyone lives better. Right. You know, Sabrina and I have both lived in various States, right? We've lived at times where we've had no money and in times where we have a little bit more and the money has never changed anything. Right? How much or how little you have. The biggest thing, Sabrina and I tell me, and I've shared this with you, but not altogether.

Dr. Javad Sajan 18:28

And I really realized this last night, when I couldn't sleep, because of this nice high quality air we have, is our happiness up or down, has never been dependent on any object, any items other than the quality of people in our lives and the quality of those relationships. Wouldn't you say? So.

Sabrina Sajan 18:48

Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Javad Sajan 18:50

And I think for both of us, we really sharing happiness. Other people's happiness makes us feel better. And that's why we love taking care of patients and doing our practice. You know we'll work 80, 90, 120 hours a week. It doesn't feel like work. It feels like fun. It's our passion because we are at our core, both of us, people pleasers, whether that's good or bad, I don’t know, that’s what we are. So anyway, so this employee is there and she's crying and sad and upset. So I'm like, "Okay, let's do a meeting".

Dr. Javad Sajan 19:13

So we bring her in for a meeting and I'm like, "Hey, nice employee, person. What's going on". She's like, "Oh, my daughter doesn't have money for rent and she's $800 behind. They're going to get evicted. She's sitting in the hospital asleep". So I'm like, "Okay, no problem. How can we help you"? She is like, "Oh, I don't know, nothing I can do. So then I told her, "Hey, nice employee, I've known for two weeks. I'm happy to give you loan you $800. And then you can just pay us back like a hundred bucks every couple of weeks and we'll call it good". And she's crying. She's so happy. She's like, "Oh no, one's ever offered this to me. I can't believe you're doing this for me. I'm like, "No, all good, no worries". You know, God has blessed us. And you know, me and Sabrina are, thank God, we're happy with our life.

Dr. Javad Sajan 19:59

And if we can help you a little bit, why not? Right. So then the accountant looks at me funny, like, what are you doing? I'm like, I feel bad and whatever, it's 800 bucks, you know, no big deal. She's like, you shouldn't do this. I'm like, whatever, it's no big deal. Just help her out. So make her sign a little piece of paper that we're giving her 800 bucks she'll pay us back a hundred bucks or something like that every month. And we give her the check and then the next day it doesn't show up. And I get this email saying, "Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sick. I'm coming". We're like, "Okay, no problem. Take another day". You know, maybe she got sick after getting the money. And then a day, number two, the check clears. And then, cause I'm like, can you check she's deposited it in the accounts, watching it.

Dr. Javad Sajan 20:38

And then day number two, she's like, "Oh, I'm sorry. My daughter is now coming out of the hospital. I got to help her". We're like, "Okay, no problem. And then radio silence for a week, and then we email her and send her a letter, be like, "Hey, what's going on? Are you coming to your job? You're not coming back. And can I have my $800 back"? And she sends us a long letter about her life and everything. And then she says, "Oh I'm not, I didn't steal your $800, but I need time and things that are weird for me. So we're like, whatever, ignore it. Right. We just put it on the back burner. Then I'm like figuring out who this lady is. We did a background check and everything she passed, but I told my assistant, can you look up the Instagram and Facebook?

Dr. Javad Sajan 21:19

Is she like running around town and having fun? Or what is she doing? And then she looks her up on Instagram and this nice employee, you know, just to give you a description. She's a lady who has 25, 30 years of experience probably, in her fifth, late fifth, decade of life. Nice lady, short lady blonde hair. And so look up on Instagram and we find out that the day she called out sick, she was putting Instagram posts and videos of taking those boudoir pictures. You know what those are?

Sabrina Sajan 21:54

No.

Dr. Javad Sajan 21:54

It's those pictures. And in like very little seductive clothing. Boudoir pictures. So I'm like, what the heck she took out? You know? So as I can, that's the site I did not want to see. And they tried to get those pictures out of my head every day that I was on Instagram. But anyway, so this lady disappeared and we lost the money, but nevertheless, it was a disappointment, but it doesn't change what I would do. If someone asked me, would I do that again? I would say, yeah, because my intention was to help someone in need. What do you do that again? Sabrina?

Sabrina Sajan 22:31

Definitely.

Dr. Javad Sajan 22:32

It is what it is. Right? You wash it away. And I think this is why a lot of employers get jaded because you have amazing employees, most of them, but the ones that really stand out, the ones that really you remember are people like this, you know, who are, you know, I would call this lady a con artist. Right? I believe she lied about the whole kid situation just because she was doing, she had some extra curriculars, you know? And if your daughter's in the hospital, are you going to be taking those boudoir pictures, you know, illicit pictures doesn't add up. So anyway, she was never to be found again. And there goes $800 a day, no biggie. There'll be another day. So Sabrina, what's our third topic.

Sabrina Sajan 23:17

So our third topic is "Employees leaving on bad terms".

Dr. Javad Sajan 23:22

Ooh, we gotta be careful about this one.

Sabrina Sajan 23:24

Yes, definitely.

Dr. Javad Sajan 23:27

We have, I think we are at least 50 people that we work with now, right?

Sabrina Sajan 23:32

Yeah.

Dr. Javad Sajan 23:32

Between our offices and most of them are amazing terms. What happens sometimes?

Sabrina Sajan 23:40

You know, sometimes people I don't know, not saying they make up stories and stuff, but unfortunately they do. Some people make up stories and say certain things. And we've had employees in the past that have left on bad terms. And by bad terms, we mean not giving your notice or giving your notice and then stop showing up giving your notice, then try using all of your sick time. Not really being sick.

Dr. Javad Sajan 24:12

Yeah or basically like stealing or taking company property, not returning it.

Sabrina Sajan 24:16

Yeah. We had one that put her notice in called out sick the next day and kept saying that she was sick and then on Instagram was posting pictures at a bar.

Dr. Javad Sajan 24:27

It's ridiculous. Oh, I remember this one. Yeah, that was so, so, so dumb.

Sabrina Sajan 24:32

Yeah, that was not, not nice.

Dr. Javad Sajan 24:36

If you're going to call out sick, can we just, love our staff, you know, please, you know, know that Instagram is public. Even if you have a private profile, odds are

Sabrina Sajan 24:46

You're following someone or someone's following you from the office.

Dr. Javad Sajan 24:48

Exactly. And as much as nice and friendly you think your friends are, I can tell you now, that they tell us everything.

Sabrina Sajan 24:55

Yes. The word comes around and the gossip goes around. You know how that is?

Dr. Javad Sajan 25:00

Yes. Absolutely.

Sabrina Sajan 25:01

We hear everything from here to there.

Dr. Javad Sajan 25:03

Drinking a flight of beers and telling us you have food poison. And the day before doesn't add up.

Sabrina Sajan 25:08

It sure, doesn't.

Dr. Javad Sajan 25:09

Or at least change the date on your tag. Right? It may be a little bit creative.

Sabrina Sajan 25:13

Put TBT or something. [laughing]

Dr. Javad Sajan 25:17

I gotta remember that lady's picture. That was something else.

Sabrina Sajan 25:19

Yeah. but yeah, we've had you know, I wouldn't say many, I would say a handful. You know, I have employees that have left on bad terms and it's really surprising when the, these individuals will leave on bad terms and you know, not give their notice or make up lies and not show up to work and so forth.

Dr. Javad Sajan 25:40

We had somebody who told us that they wanted to quit because they wanted to be a volunteer on the COVID frontline.

Sabrina Sajan 25:50

Yes.

Dr. Javad Sajan 25:50

So basically they had a notice requirement. So, and you know they owed us some money for other things. So we're like, you know what, if you're going to go help, COVID no problem. You can literally will wave stuff. We'll make it happen. Don't worry about the stuff. Just send us some kind of document that says, you're going to go help. COVID right? This is a pandemic. This is not normal life right now. And then what happened after that?

Sabrina Sajan 26:14

And they could not unfortunately provide any documentation.

Dr. Javad Sajan 26:19

And then we find out they're working at a hospital, literally across the street.

Sabrina Sajan 26:24

Yes.

Dr. Javad Sajan 26:24

Come on. You think we're not going to see you walk into the hospital across the street or something else.

Sabrina Sajan 26:31

Another employee definitely saw them walk into the hospital, across the street from our office. It's a small world. Okay. You can't hide.

Dr. Javad Sajan 26:40

No, you can't hide it. And life happens, right? Like, you know, we don't like it. Sometimes we will let people go. And sometimes people find different opportunities that are a better fit for them and nobody feels bad. It's okay. You do what you gotta do. Take care of you. We're going to take care of us. Let's all be fair. Right? We make a commitment to someone that says, "Hey, we're going to give you a paycheck every two weeks. We're giving you that paycheck". At the same time if you make a commitment with us that, "Hey, I'm going to give you guys so much notice. And then you want to get out of that". You know, it's not fair. Just like it's fair for us to give a paycheck. It's fair for you to work with. We know what the team and we all keep our word. And so if you haven't something else isn't fitting for you and someone else is going somewhere, just make it clean. And we can, everyone can be happy.

Sabrina Sajan 27:19

Yeah. There's no reason to lie and to make up stories and, you know, to do whatever. I mean, you know, you can vouch for this, but you know how small the healthcare world is.

Dr. Javad Sajan 27:30

Absolutely. And I'll get phone calls all the time about own people. So Sabrina, what did we do with people when they leave on bad terms when we get references and we know applications for stuff?

Sabrina Sajan 27:41

Yeah. I mean, we follow the law, we give the information that we're required to, but I wouldn't expect anything more than that. I would say.

Dr. Javad Sajan 27:50

Definitely no good reference. You know? I mean, isn't that, we're not gonna follow the law, we're gonna follow the great laws of this amazing state. But you know, I wouldn't use me as a positive reference. What about you, Sabrina? You give me a positive reference. Somebody didn't pay rent or they pay me a hundred dollars back.

Sabrina Sajan 28:04

Yeah, definitely not. Yeah. So if you're going to leave on bad terms and you know, you're going to not fulfill your notice requirement or make up lies and so forth, I wouldn't put a lot on your reference list.

Dr. Javad Sajan 28:19

No, definitely not. All right. So our last topic for today.

Sabrina Sajan 28:24

Yes. You know, "Patients that are overweight".

Dr. Javad Sajan 28:29

Obesity is a difficult thing, right? It's something that I personally have struggled with. I remember.

Sabrina Sajan 28:35

I saw that baby picture.

Dr. Javad Sajan 28:35

Yeah. my kid picture. So when I was a kid, I, you know, we came from Africa to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And so I was in public school there and I was a big kid. So when I was born, I was born three pounds, two ounces. My mom reminds me of that. She told me, I looked like a little rat. But a nice, cute way. Yeah. So they fed me a lot of egg yolks when I was a kid. And these egg yolks made me very big.

Sabrina Sajan 29:01

Egg yolks and whole, whole milk.

Dr. Javad Sajan 29:03

Half and half, like all that kind of stuff. So basically they became a heavy kid. I loved eating. And when I got into public school at lunchtime, so I was probably like, just so you guys know I was probably four by four feet, maybe easy one, 160. Yeah. So obese, definitely obese BMI, 35 or greater, you know, that's what it was. So at lunchtime, the way I supported my weight is I used to take, I used to love eating and I used to take food that other people didn't like and trade. So in lunch time, right? You know, you pay 85 cents for your daily meal, about some much it was in the 90s. And I remember at my school it was a school in the, not in the best area. You know, we didn't have much money.

Dr. Javad Sajan 29:52

We were pretty poor. So it was a rough school. But-

Sabrina Sajan 29:55

What did do you trade?

Dr. Javad Sajan 29:57

So the meals were unique they're. My favorite item that I thought was chicken without any pork was mock chicken leg. I love mock chicken leg, mock chicken leg with this potato, like scoop with this yellow gravy. Oh, it was amazing. So they only used to give you one piece that was literally the size of a little rectangle, like a piece of cheese. And I wanted more. So I used to trade at lunch. So the leaner, skinny kids, athletic kids, not me, always loved ice cream and sweets. So I would trade my chocolate milk or my orange Sherbert ice cream. We got those little cups. I don't know if you remember ever having those four mock chicken leg, mashed potatoes. And usually I could do like a three for one.

Dr. Javad Sajan 30:37

So I was like, "Hey bro, you don't want that chicken leg. That's an ice cream for you and I could do the trade" and they will give usually give me chicken leg, but mashed potato. And then whatever other side item they had. So I was like, this is a great deal. And then a lot of the kids, they just didn't like it. So I would just get all their food. And so I used to eat a lot, you know, weight kept going up. And I remember one day, Mrs. Gilbert, who was the teaching assistant there who taught me English. I didn't know English. When I came to America, I was in the special class. She's seen me trade all this. And this day was a really good day for me. Right. It looked like the market was flying high.

Dr. Javad Sajan 31:10

I was trading up. I probably had four mock chicken legs on my plate and she comes to me saying, Javad what are you doing? I'm like, "Oh, I'm just eating these mock chicken legs", something like that. And my broken English incoherently and she sits me down and she was like, you know, you shouldn't be eating this much and you're not allowed to trade food. Everybody has to eat their own. And you know, your weight could be a problem.

Sabrina Sajan 31:31

I guess I didn't have that problem.

Dr. Javad Sajan 31:33

No, no, no. So, I say this story to let people know that, you know, I really respect people who struggle with that. I struggled with it for a long time. It's still up and down, but I try to let you know, I'm really strict about my food. And Sabrina really helps me with that. So in this, when we take care of patients, we believe in safety first, right? One of our, we own two surgery centers, one of our surgery centers on the sixth floor of a building. And because of restrictions, you know, there are limits on what we can do for surgery regarding weight.

Sabrina Sajan 32:04

Correct.

Dr. Javad Sajan 32:05

So I do many consults every day. And I remember I had a patient who had some medical comorbidities or medical problems in their, you know, their weight was 400 pounds. And I'm doing my consultation with this really nice patient and I share with them, "Happy to help you with surgery, but the weight is too high. It's unsafe. And then there's these other medical problems that would restrict me from doing surgery for you" and the patient become very upset, very upset. And they basically got up, said, "I am leaving. I can't believe you talked to me about weight loss and stormed out". He didn't even let me talk further, stormed out, slammed my office door opened. I was like, "Oh my goodness. Something else". So anyway, so then that goes, that's over. And then the patient, you know, is unhappy and has writes bad reviews all over Google and Yelp and all of that. I don't know where else there are probably everywhere.

Dr. Javad Sajan 33:02

Saying, you know, Dr. Sajan, these are the patient words. You know, doesn't like, I never used the word fat. I don't like that word. I think it's a bad word. I was called fat so many times. I think it's very derogatory. And basically, so this patient says Dr. Sajan, doesn't like fat people, long story short. And I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, I, myself was very heavy. I love all people. Right? And I relate with people, but I can't do surgery, if it's unsafe. For example, at our surgery center, if there was earthquake or fire and the patient's asleep, we have to take the patient down the stairs.

Sabrina Sajan 33:41

Yeah.

Dr. Javad Sajan 33:42

So, and you know, our staff are all six flights of stairs on the sixth floor. And our patients, you know, our staff are nice, but you know, many of our staff are women and you know, they're not capable of lifting that much weight down the stairs. So if we have somebody who's three, 400 pounds, how are we going to take them down the stairs?

Sabrina Sajan 34:00

Yeah, we have to literally take I guess it's like a bed that folds out and you put the patient on there and we have to carry the patient six flight of stairs.

Dr. Javad Sajan 34:14

Exactly. So that's one issue.

Sabrina Sajan 34:15

This is the of requirement. We have to be able to do it.

Dr. Javad Sajan 34:19

Exactly the requirement by the department of health. And we know we get inspected all the time. Beyond that is other safety issues, right? When you're considering weight and surgery. And I believe many of the surgeries that I do are medically necessary surgeries and the need to get done. They should get done. With that safety is always important. And you have to look at the patient as a whole, when you give someone feedback that isn't exactly what they expect. Taking it so internally, I think is sometimes wrong. If I was your doctor and you came to me for an operation, I felt I could do it better in a more ideal situation. And I share that with you. I'm not trying to be mean I'm not trying to be rude. I'm not trying to be judgmental. I'm trying to help and do the best I can.

Dr. Javad Sajan 35:04

At the end of the day, the surgeries I do are medically necessary many of them, some of them are cosmetic also, but they are elective. Elective means they are voluntary. I am not doing surgery to do a bypass on someone. So they live five more days. We are doing elective surgeries to give people a better quality of life and all these other things that are really important that I believe in with that we, can't not jeopardize someone's life and safety for an elective operation. If we can make it more ideal. Now, sometimes that is impossible and there's exceptions to every rule. And I believe that, with that I really share with people that if you get feedback of consultation with me, that sometimes might not be what you want to hear. I can tell you that is not what I want to say, but it's what I have to say.

Dr. Javad Sajan 35:51

When you're somebody's doctor your goal isn't just to cut and stitch, your goal is for me, I believe it's to treat the whole person. When somebody comes from me for surgery, the question for me, isn't can I do the surgery? You know, thank God, God's grace. I can do surgery on anybody for anything. The real question, the real question, Sabrina is what can I do to make this person happy? Give them a good life and contribute to them without giving them high risk.

Sabrina Sajan 36:19

Yeah.

Dr. Javad Sajan 36:19

And that's the real question, right? When you're new out of school, your goal is operate and just try to get cases. And this is not the, you know, when you're coming to me, you're not coming to our, you know, rookie of the year here and I've done it before. I know what's right. I'm going to help you at the same time. I have to put your safety first. And sometimes I know you're not going to like it, but I may tell you something that's not ideal, but it's best for you. My goal here is not to do as many surgeries I can. I don't want to do the most I can. Absolutely not. But what we want to do is the best we can. And that's a very important distinction. I love my patients all. And without them, there's no way we would be able to do as much as we do. And because I love them so much, I will not jeopardize their safety to do an operation period.

Sabrina Sajan 37:04

And I think this happens often, not just with surgical patients. Think sometimes with non-surgical patients, we get this type of behavior as well. When our injector sometimes will tell, for example, lip filler patient, that they do not need more filler in their lips. You know, sometimes people will come to us and their lips are already filled and they've already had two or three syringes in their lips and their demand. They inject her to put another syringe in their lips. And a lot of times the injector, you know, say that this is not the right thing for you. And we've had times when patients have gotten upset, but you know, we're trying to do the right thing here. And, you know, I would, if the provider or injector, whoever that is, does not feel that you are right for that procedure treatment surgery, then you should take that positively.

Dr. Javad Sajan 37:50

Exactly. And sometimes it's better to find a different provider. Not every provider is a fit for every patient when I get my haircut. Right? Or when you get your hair colored. Right? You oftentimes, it takes more than one to find the right person and that's okay. And that's life, you know, you're not going to be able to touch everyone the way they want to be touched or, you know, whatever you want to say for that. But the bottom line is you want to do the best you can for the people you can serve. And that's what it's all about. What can you say? So-

Sabrina Sajan 38:19

Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Javad Sajan 38:20

And you know, it's a free world out there. You want to go on Yelp and Google and whatever other site and say something mean or nasty, do it. No one's going to stop you. It makes you feel good. Makes you feel like a big person. Go ahead. At the end of day, we're going to do what's right.

Sabrina Sajan 38:36

Yeah. I was just going to say, just to remember what's right, and why that provider or injector or doctor said that to you? Think about it.

Dr. Javad Sajan 38:44

Karma is also very nasty.

Dr. Javad Sajan 38:48

So that was an amazing episode. So many different things that happened to, anything. So Sabrina.

Sabrina Sajan 38:54

A lot of things.

Dr. Javad Sajan 38:55

Overall, I think the bottom line is we're still blessed to be able to take care of so many amazing people. And sometimes the stories that stick out are the ones that are the most unique and sharing those is a lot of fun. Thanks for listening to clinic. Talk on the plastic surgeon podcast, please rate and review us on Apple podcast to hear more great content.

Sabrina Sajan 39:14

Tune in next time for more clinic talk, we have some more great stories coming soon.

Dr. Javad Sajan 39:19

For my live surgeries on Snapchat and my adventures throughout the week. Catch us on all social media @realdoctorseattle.

Sabrina Sajan 39:27

See you next time. Bye.